Which car should I choose? same question as the other guy :P

[CleanSierra]

Why don't you get an S63? Or C55?

[SojiaRaggs9000]

World Motors in scottsdale. We specialize in mercedes, BMW, and audi. You're right i do clean cars and sweep floors, but i also LEARN. as for the idiots talking about UTI....

FORD FACT is an elective. We earn almost ALL of the ford credentials to become master certified. It is an ELECTIVE, and it is completed along side the core automotive program. MBSTAR.... is the Mercedes MSAT... Manufacturer sepcific advanced training. It requires an interview process and grade requirments to get into. it is actually my plan B. My primary goal is Porsche PTAP in atlanta georgia. ALL the MSATS, BMW, MINI, Porsche and Mercedes recommend Ford FACT because it has a heavy focus on electrical diagnosis and repair. Having FACT looks better on my MSAT resumes. It also offers me a fall back if i ever need work somewhere there is a ford dealeriship. You all really need to do some research before you run your mouths.

I work in a Ford dealership as an Assistant Parts/Service Manager. Technical term for you job is "Porter". As porter you do all the "bitch work". You sweep floors, clean oil spils, wash cars on the lot, and sometimes even pick up parts the techs need. You don't do "LoF" (Oil Changes) and you defiantly don't "LEARN" crap mechanical wise. Hell when our Porters go to talking to our techs we run them off. Because if the Techs are talking to you then they're not making the shop money. If the shop isn't making money then the Techs aren't getting paid. So in essence if your in my shop talking to my Techs, your costing me money and I send your ass on to go do some work.

As for the Certs...

I take my ASE's on my own time. In fact i JUST finished up this testing period. Registration begins again September 1st.

I received the EPA 609 during my climate control phase.

I got the All-data cert and Ford TCSH cert during my service writing class.

I earned my Pro-cut cert during my brakes class.

I am receiving Ford creds as i go through Ford FACT..and when i graduate from FACT in June 2012 i will be 4 away from being a ford Master Tech.

If i get into Porsche PTAP.... I will graduate with ALL the Porsche Creds, and be required to sign a contract to work for them for 2-5 years at any location they choose, working FULL flat rate as a Porsche B-Tech. After five years i will receive Porsche A-tech credentials.

Porsche is hard to get into, so i have my back up plan of MBSTAR or the BMW msat called STEP... all of which work exactly the same way, you graduate a fully certified technician and receive a contract. Go to the UTI website and read up if you really care.

Certs are nice but in today's economy all that schooling doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Sure its coming back a little but employers want people with experience.

I am not planning to complete my apprenticeship. Read what i just posted regarding MSATS.

Also further down the page you just linked:

Different Experience Types

The Work Experience Reporting Form has separate sections for different types of automotive industry job experience, and your work experience must match the kind of certification you are trying to achieve. For example, experience as a Repair Technician (automobile, truck, school bus, etc.) does not satisfy the experience requirements for Collision Damage Estimator (test B6), Automobile Service Consultant (test C1), or Parts Specialist (tests P1, P2, and P4).

Substitutions

You may receive credit for up to one year of your two-year work experience requirement by substituting relevant formal training in one, or a combination, of the following:

High School Training: Two full years of training, either in automobile/truck/school bus repair or in collision repair, refinishing, or damage estimating, may be substituted for one year of work experience.

Post-High School Training: Two full years of post-high school training in a public or private trade school, technical institute, community or four-year college, or in an apprenticeship program may be counted as one year of work experience.

Short Courses: For shorter periods of post-high school training, you may substitute two months of training for one month of work experience.

UTI counts for one year. And my current job counts as another, assuming of course i stay there for a year. I am an apprentice, but i am not pursuing it. I am a full time student in an automotive school. I am referencing my job as a JOB not as an apprenticeship. and as a JOB i will have 1 year of experience.

We used to have a kid working there at our shop going through the Ford ASSET Program. While he wasn't in school he was doing OJT ( On the Job Training). All his work was wrote down in a log and he had to keep copies of his work orders etc. Once he'd return to school he'd receive credit for the jobs completed. He completed the course and started working as a Tech at our shop. He ended up moving to another town and got a job there pretty easy because he had the experience and the certs. In the end he ended up quitting because he didn't like the pay. Now he works in the oil field. Makes good money but when to school for all them certifications and doesn't even use them now. Just remember no body plans to fail, they simply fail to plan.

Because DEALERSHIPS hire Master Techs. Dealearships are where the money is. Qualified technicians with all the specialty tools and reference materials to complete technical jobs. Hell you can't even swap power window CMs on two audis of the same year and same model withouth taking it to a dealership to have it reprogrammed to the ECU with propriety software and hardware. DEALERSHIPS and REPAIR SHOPS are the diffrence between TECHNICIANS and MECHANICS. The other difference is the pay check, why don't you google the average salary of a BMW Master Tech, or Ford Master tech or what i'm shooting for, Porsche Master tech.

I'm going to bed now, i have class in the morning. So any more shit talking / bad mouthing / doubt is gonna have to wait until tomorrow night.

This is true dealerships do like having certifications which allow them to get warranty work covered though corporate. BUT the thing is, is they only need one person that is certified. Which allows all warranty work done in the shop to be covered. We also have people at our shop that aren't certified but have 10+ years experience. These guys usually end up making more cash that the certified ones do. Because while the certified ones are stuck swapping engines (which pay about 7 hours warranty wise), the other guys are knocking out the a/c jobs etc that pay 2-5 hours ( and only take about an hour or so to complete). Most the non-certified Techs usually average 60hours weekly and @ $21 that isn't bad at all.

Nope. waiting for some valid opinions and for this thread to return to the OP.

As far as your original question "Cobra or Neon". Id go with the Mustang. Parts are more readily available. I don't care what car you buy its going to need to be fixed eventually and if you can get the parts your S.O.L. Hell we actually had a few brand new (straight from factory) vehicles that needed transmissions and engines. You really can't go wrong with the mustang you will always be able to find parts. If you reading this then I'm glad you atleast took the time to consider my comments and I hope they help you. But from what I read here you seem to have your mind made up already. Its like my grandmother tells me "Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still." Thats' truth for the taking.

[727Designs]

Get the Cobra, and Idk where ive been but neons have never *turned heads*

Stage 3RS with a full 4 inch intake/exhuast and an HKS SSQV really do turn heads...than again that is pretty subjective, and i am in a school full of guys obsessed with these cars. So i don't know.

If you're in college and worried about impressing dudes I'd be seriously concerned.

At the end of the day the SRT-4 is still a Neon. My buddy owns one of the fastest ones in the country, and he will even tell you that. They are cool cars, but torque steer is a PITA, they sound like anus (Even stock), it's a bitch to drive, and to most college chicks it's still a Neon.

Also in your "350hp Neon will walk the Cobra" you're missing alot of key factors at the track. FWD is harder to hook up at that power range, the weight difference really isn't that significant, and the Mustang will just be all around easier to drive at the track.

I say get the Cobra, don't worry about a blower. Long tubes, O/R X, catback, GOOD shifter (MGW FTW!), 4.10 gears, CAI, and a tune and you'll have a plenty fast car that will sound wicked and turn heads.

I'm not worried about impressing "dudes" i'm into getting looks at the track, performance and aesthetics wise. And you are forgetting WHERE ill be racing... I am very aware that a RWD cobra will 60ft better than an SRT-4. But i don't drag race except on saturdays.... I race from rolls. we all know where and why. And an srt-4 60-140 roll, it's pretty much untouchable to a factory cobra. And... All of the stuff you just said is great, and then i'm gonna put a kenne bell on it That's my prefrence. i will worry about blowing it, because it's the difference betweeen 400 and 600+ hp

LOL Kid your mind is made up. You won't listen to posts from people who have owned these cars and been there. I worked at a modular Mustang performance shop for quite some time and have seen what those cars can do without a blower. You have any idea how much it takes to get 600whp? It's alot more than bolting on a blower. A 2.1L KB will set you back ~$5,500 for the kit, then if you want to above 6.5psi (Which you will HAVE to do to make 600whp) you'll need to upgrade the fuel system, then gauges to monitor everything, then don't forget $700+ for a good tune. Most of those cars with an off the shelf KB kit barely break the 400whp range. You're not talking 03-04 Cobra and 600whp being as easy as a ported blower and a pulley change. The 01 internals are also not as strong as the 03-04 and about 450whp is pretty close to the limit on them. You're underestimating how fast a 400whp Cobra will be.

Getting looks at the track? Like I said, at the end of the day the SRT-4 is still a Neon. Performance wise it will be fast in a straight line, but will suck for auto-x, fast trips through the twisties, etc where the IRS Cobra will shine. Most people seriously underestimate the handling of those cars.

Roll racing isn't racing. If you're worried about a roll race buy a Supra. Running from a dig takes skill, a trained monkey can race from a roll. Lol

[727Designs]

World Motors in scottsdale. We specialize in mercedes, BMW, and audi. You're right i do clean cars and sweep floors, but i also LEARN. as for the idiots talking about UTI....

FORD FACT is an elective. We earn almost ALL of the ford credentials to become master certified. It is an ELECTIVE, and it is completed along side the core automotive program. MBSTAR.... is the Mercedes MSAT... Manufacturer sepcific advanced training. It requires an interview process and grade requirments to get into. it is actually my plan B. My primary goal is Porsche PTAP in atlanta georgia. ALL the MSATS, BMW, MINI, Porsche and Mercedes recommend Ford FACT because it has a heavy focus on electrical diagnosis and repair. Having FACT looks better on my MSAT resumes. It also offers me a fall back if i ever need work somewhere there is a ford dealeriship. You all really need to do some research before you run your mouths.

I work in a Ford dealership as an Assistant Parts/Service Manager. Technical term for you job is "Porter". As porter you do all the "bitch work". You sweep floors, clean oil spils, wash cars on the lot, and sometimes even pick up parts the techs need. You don't do "LoF" (Oil Changes) and you defiantly don't "LEARN" crap mechanical wise. Hell when our Porters go to talking to our techs we run them off. Because if the Techs are talking to you then they're not making the shop money. If the shop isn't making money then the Techs aren't getting paid. So in essence if your in my shop talking to my Techs, your costing me money and I send your ass on to go do some work.

LOL Yessir. When I worked at the Mustang shop we had interns or "porters" whatever you want to call them and they did basically slave labor. If a tech needed something it was their job to fetch it. If there was nothing to fetch they can sweep floors or detail the cars.

[AlexRhodes]

Get the Cobra, and Idk where ive been but neons have never *turned heads*

Stage 3RS with a full 4 inch intake/exhuast and an HKS SSQV really do turn heads...than again that is pretty subjective, and i am in a school full of guys obsessed with these cars. So i don't know.

If you're in college and worried about impressing dudes I'd be seriously concerned.

At the end of the day the SRT-4 is still a Neon. My buddy owns one of the fastest ones in the country, and he will even tell you that. They are cool cars, but torque steer is a PITA, they sound like anus (Even stock), it's a bitch to drive, and to most college chicks it's still a Neon.

Also in your "350hp Neon will walk the Cobra" you're missing alot of key factors at the track. FWD is harder to hook up at that power range, the weight difference really isn't that significant, and the Mustang will just be all around easier to drive at the track.

I say get the Cobra, don't worry about a blower. Long tubes, O/R X, catback, GOOD shifter (MGW FTW!), 4.10 gears, CAI, and a tune and you'll have a plenty fast car that will sound wicked and turn heads.

I'm not worried about impressing "dudes" i'm into getting looks at the track, performance and aesthetics wise. And you are forgetting WHERE ill be racing... I am very aware that a RWD cobra will 60ft better than an SRT-4. But i don't drag race except on saturdays.... I race from rolls. we all know where and why. And an srt-4 60-140 roll, it's pretty much untouchable to a factory cobra. And... All of the stuff you just said is great, and then i'm gonna put a kenne bell on it That's my prefrence. i will worry about blowing it, because it's the difference betweeen 400 and 600+ hp

LOL Kid your mind is made up. You won't listen to posts from people who have owned these cars and been there. I worked at a modular Mustang performance shop for quite some time and have seen what those cars can do without a blower. You have any idea how much it takes to get 600whp? It's alot more than bolting on a blower. A 2.1L KB will set you back ~$5,500 for the kit, then if you want to above 6.5psi (Which you will HAVE to do to make 600whp) you'll need to upgrade the fuel system, then gauges to monitor everything, then don't forget $700+ for a good tune. Most of those cars with an off the shelf KB kit barely break the 400whp range. You're not talking 03-04 Cobra and 600whp being as easy as a ported blower and a pulley change. The 01 internals are also not as strong as the 03-04 and about 450whp is pretty close to the limit on them. You're underestimating how fast a 400whp Cobra will be.

Getting looks at the track? Like I said, at the end of the day the SRT-4 is still a Neon. Performance wise it will be fast in a straight line, but will suck for auto-x, fast trips through the twisties, etc where the IRS Cobra will shine. Most people seriously underestimate the handling of those cars.

Roll racing isn't racing. If you're worried about a roll race buy a Supra. Running from a dig takes skill, a trained monkey can race from a roll. Lol

I never said it would be cheap to kenne bell it... And idk about 5500. They're in 5.0 magazine right now for 4,500. I know the 01 internals are weaker, i said in the first post that i would build the engine. Crank is forged, it only need rods and pistons. As for the fuel, KB covers that with the boost-a-pump. it's all in the kit, and KB offers flash tuning as well. Yes i'd have to get a gauge pillar, but those are all parts i'd factor into the build cost of the car. Not only have i seen one of these cobras, there are TWO at my school, both dynod at 600+ hp at 10-12 psi. The other problem with the 01 cobra is the half shafts are not as stout as the 03-04.

I know rolling isn't real racing, but it's what i do 99% of the time. And to be honest i'd never considered the cobra for anything BUT straight lines. It's an interesting point that it can handle it if i ever wanted to go that route.

As for you guys saying i have my mind made up.... I'm simply fighting for both cars... These are all the arguments i have in my head when trying to pick one or the other.

[AlexRhodes]

Why don't you get an S63? Or C55?

They cost a lot to repair and maintain, and they cost a lot to build performance wise. I throw money at the car i have now for stupid stuff. Thermostat and a window motor was like an 1800 dollar repair. I'd be terrified to do any type of real damage by boosting it or something radical.

They're also out side the price range of 10-15K. lol

[Brandonrcm]

Get the Cobra, and Idk where ive been but neons have never *turned heads*

Stage 3RS with a full 4 inch intake/exhuast and an HKS SSQV really do turn heads...than again that is pretty subjective, and i am in a school full of guys obsessed with these cars. So i don't know.

It's still a gay looking car, your main priority shouldn't be to impress a bunch of dudes.

[SojiaRaggs9000]

Why don't you get an S63? Or C55?

They cost a lot to repair and maintain, and they cost a lot to build performance wise. I throw money at the car i have now for stupid stuff. Thermostat and a window motor was like an 1800 dollar repair. I'd be terrified to do any type of real damage by boosting it or something radical.

They're also out side the price range of 10-15K. lol

Im calling on that right there. Either that our your getting ripped off by your "employer". Here at our shop both them jobs cost no where near that kinda price. Thermostat would cost like $150 installed if that (which includes diagnostics). Replacing the window regulator or actuator might get a little pricey but no more than around $500. I don't know how they do you over there but all our employees only pay 10% above cost for parts. the prices i just gave you would be for the average joe that walks off the street. So as far as employee pricing would go.. costs would be about 1/2 of what I said above. thermostat is a thermostat, window regulator (or actuator) is just that... IDK if its a Ford, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Audi or Mercedes. It doesn't cost that much ( or shouldn't rather) Unless your "employer" is out to rip people off.

[AlexRhodes]

Why don't you get an S63? Or C55?

They cost a lot to repair and maintain, and they cost a lot to build performance wise. I throw money at the car i have now for stupid stuff. Thermostat and a window motor was like an 1800 dollar repair. I'd be terrified to do any type of real damage by boosting it or something radical.

They're also out side the price range of 10-15K. lol

Im calling on that right there. Either that our your getting ripped off by your "employer". Here at our shop both them jobs cost no where near that kinda price. Thermostat would cost like $150 installed if that (which includes diagnostics). Replacing the window regulator or actuator might get a little pricey but no more than around $500. I don't know how they do you over there but all our employees only pay 10% above cost for parts. the prices i just gave you would be for the average joe that walks off the street. So as far as employee pricing would go.. costs would be about 1/2 of what I said above. thermostat is a thermostat, window regulator (or actuator) is just that... IDK if its a Ford, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Audi or Mercedes. It doesn't cost that much ( or shouldn't rather) Unless your "employer" is out to rip people off.

I am talking about my BMW, and water pump too lol. They had the front end apart and i said go ahead and do it as PM. Btw this was not at my work, this was back home in NM at sandia BMW before i moved out here. But ya, left off the water pump when i posted before. I have the RO some where around here. if you really want i'll find it and type out everything they charged me for.

[AlexRhodes]

Get the Cobra, and Idk where ive been but neons have never *turned heads*

Stage 3RS with a full 4 inch intake/exhuast and an HKS SSQV really do turn heads...than again that is pretty subjective, and i am in a school full of guys obsessed with these cars. So i don't know.

It's still a gay looking car, your main priority shouldn't be to impress a bunch of dudes.

It shouldn't be to impress a bunch of girls either... I don't need my car to get girls. And the "bunch of dudes" you are talking about are in this industry... instructors and students... many of whom have worked or owned performance shops, race teams, repair shops...etc... its THEIR opinions i care about.

This is an example of one of the neons i'm looking at, i first saw it at the pavillions car show. In my opinion, its pretty sick. it has a full soundsystem to that i think is pretty nice for what it is:

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/cto/2551089451.html